Insights from Conscious Travel in Thailand with Pastor Carroll,
Ruthie Redmond
Insights from Conscious Travel in Thailand with Pastor Carroll,
Founder of Green the Church
Pastor Carroll is a fellow in the Atlantic Fellows for Racial Equity (AFRE), a network of changemakers from South Africa and the U.S. building solidarity and action for a more equitable future based at Columbia University and The Nelson Mandela Foundation. The Atlantic Fellows is one of seven fellowships of the Atlantic Institute (Institute), which works to amplify Fellows’ impact in the world through building connections among fellows and supporting them to exchange and collaborate. Originally Pastor Carroll’s fellowship was scheduled to visit Johannesburg, South Africa and a U.S. city because of the similar racial history to discuss differences and similarities between South Africa and the US, and how they see themselves related to power. However, the pandemic detoured the fellowship schedule so his cohort has been meeting virtually discussing culture and anti-racism and the Institute decided to shift the in-person conference to Thailand.
Pan-Africanism
The Atlantic Institute brought all of their current 400 fellows from all over the world to Thailand for two weeks in early July and connect at the intersection of race and equity, meet one another and create projects to usher in a beloved community around the planet. There were trainings, artwork and cultural sharing showcasing individuals work and culture, and time set-aside to meet just as the AFRE cohort. As Green the Church was created and developed by Carroll Ministries International (CMI), established in 1997, it is important for Reverend Carroll to be a part of international work and bring Black Christian culture to the table. CMI is inspired to express the experiences and knowledge of African-Americans as a people, where we came from, and cultural activities that have brought the black family together. Sharing the experiences and strength of African-American culture (family reunions, vacation bible school, etc.) and exploring connections to people of the African Diaspora is paramount to CMI work in the African diaspora and around the world. In October he will be going to Johannesburg to experience communities addressing environmental justice issues and connect around African spirituality.
Cultural Conditioning
The process of travel, in and of itself, reminds us that our culture and existence is just one out of many ways of being. On the way to Thailand Pastor Carroll passed through Qatar, a predominate muslim country in the Middle East. While there he was able to witness the interplay of Arab culture and Islamic religion with an open mind and noticed how our American cultural notions had created a narrative of othering Islamic culture. Noticing your cultural conditioning hits your body in a way, the experience can show up in your body as many emotions, e.g. fear, carefulness, etc. With twenty years of hearing about al qaeda, bin laden, etc. it’s easy for Americans to view arab and muslim people as characters instead of people, so it was nice to see people in their own culture going about their normal life. It was also interesting to see the financial wealth of this country and its people moving around the world in a different way due to the power of oil and agreements. This reminded him of his grandparents in Shreveport, Louisiana. They also had on oil on their land and oil wells pumping next door, but lived in a house without running water as they could not benefit from this resource in the same way as middle eastern countries.
The Power of Travel
In Thailand, Pastor Carroll gained historical context around the movement of religion in the past 400 years, particularly Buddhism which is the largest religion in the country. He visited Buddhist temples and toured the pristine nature of nearby islands and noticed how being present in a different place is reviving and allows for reflection. He learned from locals that although Thailand wasn’t directly colonized like nearby nations, they were used as leverage between these nations and still have a large Western influence in the modern development of their country. They didn’t endure slavery, but had powerful colonial forces working within their countries sociopolitical landscape. Traveling around streets felt like places he’d been in Mexico, where there is a level of wealth and then a pronounced level of poverty. He found it fascinating that the city streets had McDonald’s, Pepsi, KFC, and Coca-Cola signs that have been there for 50 to 60 years. So even though he wasn’t in Mexico and he was on the other side of the world, the world has been controlled by the same western powers. As a church man, he seeks to understand the role of religion in that control and sees it as a powerful motif of what it means to be human at this time. CNN news in Thailand also provided a much broader context of world events than we receive in the U.S.
Doing Theology since 1989
During the fellowship sessions, he noticed a lot of people are realizing that religious stories divide us and that some would say we need to tear it all up and start over, from scratch. We see that the western stories of religion come with cultural bias, Africans know about Judaism but not about African spiritual traditions. While starting over is a possibility, he also views the Bible and Book of the Dead as sacred texts and that hidden within the stories are psychological, scientific and cosmic truths that change names depending on the culture but the lessons remain the same. We shouldn’t throw these 10,000 years of truths away because we have yet to understand what the ancestors knew.
Interfaith and Shepherding
Pastor Carroll is very active in interfaith spaces. He believes all religion comes from the same root and while religion gives us a narrative of being a spiritual being in these bodies it does not give us science, math, astronomy, etc. that we also need. We need to peel back from violence that uses religion to help empower imperial forces over others. His role is to open up what has been held secret, as the good stuff has been held back on purpose. Religions have been relegated to be tools, fodder for others to use against others to create their wealth. Travel to the Holy land or Oxford to learn about 400 years of christiantity and idolize old christian people and their virtues leaves can leave Pastors’ locked into a certain narrative that only allows us only to move in ways within the context of those that are powerful. As Green the Church’s main audience is African-American pastors, he views travel and conversation with those outside of our own conditionings and belief systems as a way to engage other insights. We need to understand the language of both worlds, shift the power, move our people from the bottom of the socioeconomic scale as now we are seeing only from a point of view of supremacy. Jesus didn’t have motivation to be above but with and we need to learn to be with one another, including people and the planet.